Xaosflux

Diskutim

Informacioni Babel i Përdoruesit
sq-0 Ky përdorues nuk ka njohuri të gjuhës shqipe (ose e kupton me vështirësi të madhe). en-N This user has a native understanding of English.
Përdorues sipas gjuhës

Interface tasks to be addressed

Hello, Xaosflux!

Since you'll be an admin here soon, I've been scrutinizing a bit the tech side of the project to look for problems I could use your advice on and frankly, there are not a lot.

Since all of the problems I've found until now are interface related, I thought of this discussion.

So, first of all, our common .JS and .CSS pages haven't been updated in ages. The more you can fix/update there, the better. Although I understand updates are pretty community-specific in these pages. Nonetheless I believe there are a lot of general fixes that can be done.

Then we have the red box at protectedpagewarning message.

And finally, I just found out of a bizarre configuration that happened when you hit more than one abuse filter at the same time. You can test that for yourself if you type HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (LOL) as an unregistered user somewhere. (Try the WQ:LV, our sandbox.) The problem does involve a red background again so I believe I'm describing different variations of the same problem. Maybe after seeing your edits, I'll understand better the CSS at play and will be able to tweak them according to the specific needs.

Also, since we're discussing tech problems, a quick question: Please take a lot at the "Artikujt e rinj" template at the main page. It automatically lists new articles by making use of {{Special:NewPages}}. Is there a way to make the information derived from it more appealing to the average user's eyes? By emphasizing some features and removing some details? I don't believe you can do more to it beside the information described in Help:New pages but I thought I'd ask anyway, maybe you know something I'm not aware of. - Klein Muçi (diskutimet) 6 prill 2020 07:57 (CEST)

Another question: How can I add here topicon indicators like in EnWiki for protected pages, indicating different protection levels? - Klein Muçi (diskutimet) 11 prill 2020 10:33 (CEST)

@Klein Muçi, OK, so the stewards gave me iadmin, but not admin - so I can work on your mediawiki: pages, but not "admin" things like your protected templates. Do you have some of the specific items you want to have worked on first? Xaosflux (diskutimet) 11 prill 2020 16:52 (CEST)

I can do some in sandboxes, working at Faqja kryesore/sandbox. Xaosflux (diskutimet) 11 prill 2020 16:55 (CEST)

Main page list

Po ndiqet te Fabrikatori
Detyra T250047

So Special:NewPages doesn't have a bare output, I can request that, it should be easy (c.f. mw:Help:New pages) for a dev to program, are you thinking you'd want the page titles only in the output? CSS hacks can do some of it, but aren't really good for a main page (see: Faqja_kryesore/sandbox for a CSS hacked up version, which still leaves part of it behind). Xaosflux (diskutimet) 11 prill 2020 17:23 (CEST)

Hello! I can temporarily remove any protection you need. Just ping me at the specific talk page.

Actually I was thinking of having the titles, the user and maybe the date, formatted nicely in that particular order. The added bytes, the page's content, the edit summary, the history/edit buttons, the talk/contributes of the editor are superfluous. Your edit does actually look pretty good although the line after the articles is strange. I could even settle for that (only the title) if it wasn't for that strange part. The Albanian sentence you see written in small font reads that if the list is empty, it means that there haven't been new articles for 30 days (that's how the S:NP works). The ideal version would be that when the list is empty there would be a disclaimer saying that there are no new articles instead of the blank place. But I had no way of programming that and that's why I found this workaround.

And no. Please take your time and do whatever you like in whatever order you want. :) - Klein Muçi (diskutimet) 11 prill 2020 18:35 (CEST)

@Klein Muçi, can only get so far with CSS hacks, see: Faqja kryesore/sandbox. Can't do anything about the ()'s and that | symbol since they are hard coded (would need that special page output to be changed) - we can request that but it will take a developer to update it. Note, in general terms having "dynamic" Main Page content isn't recommended as articles (like your MP) are cached for readers so they will often see an old version. The way around that is to actively update the content instead of passively (such as by having editors or bots make committed edits). Xaosflux (diskutimet) 12 prill 2020 17:53 (CEST)

I understand but in SqQuote (and even in SqWiki) those options are unfortunately out of reach. We have neither bots, nor users. :/ Human resources are unfortunately very, very scarce here. And that's why I strive for as much automation as possible. I'm always trying to make meets end regarding the time management here (not the perfect idiom but... :P ) so having a cached version is better than nothing. Can you do the request needed by developers? I'm not really sure what to ask for. Always, if you think that would be a good idea. - Klein Muçi (diskutimet) 12 prill 2020 18:16 (CEST)

phab:T250047 opened. Xaosflux (diskutimet) 13 prill 2020 01:33 (CEST)

Thank you! Maybe we can ask even for the username and date together with the title? Or do you think the title is enough? I was thinking that if people see their name appear in the Main page, maybe that would work as a sort of motivation to keep creating more articles. But if you think that would be too hard for them to do compared to only getting the titles shown, we can of course settle for this. - Klein Muçi (diskutimet) 13 prill 2020 01:59 (CEST)

@Klein Muçi, In general, a main page should be all about readers and that is probably the best way to do it with that special page (since it is a page that all projects would be able to reuse). Xaosflux (diskutimet) 13 prill 2020 02:10 (CEST)

Roger that.

As for the other things I've mentioned above, if you want me to grant any kind of permission or any kind of help, just ping me here. I'll mostly be on SqWiki after Monday so a ping will ensure a fast response. :) - Klein Muçi (diskutimet) 13 prill 2020 02:15 (CEST)

Warning color box

@Klein Muçi, ok lets get to another thing - you were mentioning wanting a color background or warning box or something like that? Can you describe a bit more? Xaosflux (diskutimet) 14 prill 2020 04:20 (CEST)

Hello! :) Yes. All the warning messages have a pink background. You can check one for yourself when trying to edit a protected page. Just try any page from the top of the sidebar. Here and in SqWiki I've adopted another kind of visual style where the warnings are given with icons and bold text and all the system messages have a specific grayish-bluish background (similar to the vector skin). I tried changing the Protectedpagewarning system message to be in tune with this approach and there I discovered I wasn't able to remove the pink background. Then I saw that it shows in many different kinds of system messages that are of a warning type.

I believe this is related to the Common.css page. That page hasn't been updated in ages in here (or in SqWiki) because only lately I've started tackling a bit with css. In here I've also described a problem with the edit filters again related, I believe, with the warning messages and the Common.css page. Staying on the same subject, if it is possible to color system messages en masse in that page, I'd like to know how to do that as that could help me with the kind of visual style I'm trying to follow through with system messages, so I'm not forced to change them one by one, like I'm doing now. Finally, again related to all-site css changes, I asked how can it be made possible for protected pages to show specific topicon indicators related to their level of protection. (This is not directly related to the warning messages.) - Klein Muçi (diskutimet) 14 prill 2020 04:51 (CEST)

Hi @Klein Muçi,

1. OK, so for the "pink" text box background, I'm not seeing pink backgrounds on protected pages here, compared to say on enwiki. Do you want this added?
2. Can you show me a specific example of the "with icon and bold" that you want replicated?
3. So about page topicons - yes, a module could be used to make these be different based on protection level, however they will never automatically appear, someone would need to actually place a template on the page you want this appear on. If you don't change protection levels on pages very often, it may be easier to just use specific topicons based on the protection level you want to show - this also helps if you want to show the editing level, but the move level is higher.

Xaosflux (diskutimet) 26 prill 2020 18:11 (CEST)

Hello! So, go to this system message for an example of what I'm saying: MediaWiki:Protectedpagewarning. Also this: MediaWiki:Editnotice-1. Try changing the number for other namespaces and you'll find the same style. Also here: MediaWiki:Titleprotected. Basically I've tried to keep that same style in all the system messages that I've managed to edit. Now the problem is that some of them, apart from the grayish background I've put on them, get enveloped in another pink background when they are shown that I don't know where it is coming from. For example, when you are editing a protected page, you get the message shown in MediaWiki:Protectedpagewarning BUT it is enclosed in a pink background (besides the gray one). Maybe you don't see it because you can't edit a protected page. Try editing my userpage. I've put it in semiprotection. You'll get a similar message. Also, if you activate more than 1 edit filters at once, you'll get some chaos in their system messages. Again with the pink/red color involved. You can try that by doing what I've described above.

As for the topicons, I thought the same but SqWiki had already something similar activated. When you protect a template, a template gets put in its page that notifies that the template is protected. Automatically. And then that template is removed if you change the protection. That's what made me think that if putting templates automatically is possible, then we could also use topicons, which would be a better choice than templates. See here for an example.

Curiosity: Why did you change my signature above? :P - Klein Muçi (diskutimet) 26 prill 2020 20:32 (CEST)

@Xaosflux, do you think it would be a good idea to postpone your ending time as an I-Admin here given that it ends after 2 days? - Klein Muçi (diskutimet) 7 maj 2020 01:43 (CEST)

@Klein Muçi, when I try to edit your page, this is what I see: w:en:File:20200506edit1-Capture.PNG. And that was a typo, I don't have the keys on my keyboard for your "ç" so I always have to copy-and paste your name! Xaosflux (diskutimet) 7 maj 2020 03:20 (CEST)

Topicons: Stampa:Harvard citation no brackets has no top-icon on it at all. And protecting a page should never automatically edit anything. Pick one page, and only protect it - then point me to the diff of the edit that was made. Xaosflux (diskutimet) 7 maj 2020 03:24 (CEST)

@Xaosflux, oh, haha I'm sorry! :P If it helps, the code for ç is Alt+135. Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about. The background where the Note text is written into. That kind of background appears in many types of warning messages. See here for example. This is the message you get when you press "Preview": w:en:File:SqQuote screenshot 3.jpg I wanted to remove the pinkish color to make it standard in style with the other kinds of warning messages we're using. Do you know where that is coming from? If I change the system message for that, I can only change the text or add another color but the pinkish original color still stays there. As I said, that kind of background (I believe there are 2 colors, pink and red) appears in many types of messages related to different kinds of warnings. When more than 1 filter is activated at once, the whole formatting breaks and error messages are rendered in a disastrous way. Look for yourself here: w:en:File:SqQuote Screenshot.jpg. This is how things are if only 1 filter is activated: w:en:File:SqQuote Screenshot 2.jpg. They are a bit better but the red background with the word "Error" (and the pinkish one a bit down below) is still there. I've tried making the system message appear in grey and it still gets enveloped by that red background with the word "Error", neither of which I can't change or translate.

As for the template, it's true it has no topicon at all. I didn't say that. I said a template appears over it with some text and a padlock. I tested it again now. If I remove protection, that template is removed and if I add it, it appears back again automatically. This was as it was before, when the page was protected: w:en:File:SqWiki Screenshot.jpg. This is how it is now when I removed the protection: w:en:File:SqWiki Screenshot 2.jpg. If you remember how it was, you can check it now and you'll notice it has changed (I've left it unprotected). I can't show you the edit that was made because the code stays the same. I do mention the word "template" but it's not really a template that gets put. Nothing changes at the code of the page. It's just that box that appears and disappears automatically every time I change the protection level. I tried it many times now and it's always the same. I don't know how that's possible so I was wondering if the same thing could be done with top-icons.

I hope I have been able to explain myself now because the screenshots were my last hope. I don't know how else to describe the situations. :P - Klein Muçi (diskutimet) 7 maj 2020 04:55 (CEST)

@Klein Muçi, a bit hard since I can't do any of this myself, since the stewards didn't want to give me +admin - your message is in a box, if you view the source for the page you should be able to fins all the source id's and classes associated with that box - which may match a class in your common.css (or may otherwise be overwritten using that). As far as topicon on protected pages - nothing will make this happen automatically. Can you give me some links that I can click on that will show the errors you want to change? If this is something that is only impacting you as the only administrator, the styling isn't really that important is it :) Xaosflux (diskutimet) 7 maj 2020 16:22 (CEST)

@Xaosflux, well, how do I check for those classes? :P I know it is related to the common.css, that's what I've been saying all this time but I'm not that good with css editing and I don't know how to update that page (and it does need some updating, because it has been more than 10 years without any change). As for the topicons, okay then but that "template" automatic change at SqWiki was strange. I'll try to ask other admins there for it though. Just tell me in a general way how do I find the classes and id's in the source page corresponding to the boxes I'm seeing. And can you please delete the 5 (or was it more?) screenshots I uploaded at EnWiki for this? - Klein Muçi (diskutimet) 7 maj 2020 19:24 (CEST)

You can look at the rendered page source in most browsers by looking at "view source". The html elements (usually a DIV) will have a class name on them in most cases. Xaosflux (diskutimet) 14 maj 2020 16:36 (CEST)

@Xaosflux, I'm really sorry I'm replying on a 2 year old discussion but I thought this would be good for reference.

I was playing around with the inspect element feature on pages after learning a bit of web design and after 2 years I finally understood what I should have done to clearly explain the problem I was talking about here.

The pink and red background I've mentioned quite a lot here back then are related to the mw-message-box-warning and mw-message-box-error classes. If you remove that element, the colors disappear and the system messages' colors take precedence. Is there anyway to affect that element site-wide? Also naive question but what exactly are these mw-* classes in general? Can they be affected/changed somewhere/somehow?

Take your time to answer this. I just had an eureka moment and wanted to write it down somewhere to not forget it. - Klein Muçi (diskutimet) 14 korrik 2022 04:57 (CEST)

These is the HTML of 2 inspected system messages.

The is coming from w:sq:Mediawiki:Editnotice-4-Livadhi.

<div class="mw-editnotice mw-editnotice-base mw-editnotice-4-Livadhi"><div style="background-color: #fafafd; border: 1px solid #ccc;; padding: 10px;">
<div style="text-align: center;"><b>Ju po redaktoni Livadhin!</b></div>
<p>Livadhi është vendi ku mund të bëni prova të ndryshme. Ju lutemi, sigurohuni të mos vendosni artikuj të mirëfiltë këtu.
</p>
</div></div>

This renders correctly. What you see in w:sq:Mediawiki:Editnotice-4-Livadhi is precisely what you get when the message is rendered.

This is coming from w:sq:MediaWiki:Abusefilter-disallowed-short-page.

<div class="mw-message-box-error mw-message-box">
<div style="background-color: #fafafd; border: 1px solid #ccc;; padding: 10px;">
<div style="text-align: center;"><img alt="px=30" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Stop_hand_nuvola_alternate.svg/64px-Stop_hand_nuvola_alternate.svg.png" decoding="async" title="px=30" width="64" height="64" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Stop_hand_nuvola_alternate.svg/96px-Stop_hand_nuvola_alternate.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Stop_hand_nuvola_alternate.svg/128px-Stop_hand_nuvola_alternate.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="64" data-file-height="64"> <b>Krijimi i faqeve shumë të shkurtra është veprim i ndaluar.</b></div>
<p>Çdo faqe duhet të ketë një bazë të konsiderueshme informacioni në të. Krijimi i faqeve shumë të shkurtra konsiderohet veprim keqdashës dhe në rast përsëritjeje mund të sjellë bllokimin e llogarisë suaj.
</p><p><br>
<i>Nëse mendoni se ka ndodhur një gabim dhe filtrimi automatik ka keqfunksionuar me redaktimin tuaj, ju lutemi, diskutoni te <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/w:sq:Wikipedia:V%C3%ABrejtje_e_Ankesa" class="extiw" title="m:w:sq:Wikipedia:Vërejtje e Ankesa">Zyra e Ankesave</a>. Sigurohuni të vendosni tekstin që përmbante redaktimi juaj apo veprimin që bëtë dhe mesazhin që morët.</i>
</p><p><br>
<i>If you do not understand Albanian, please ask for assistance <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/w:sq:Wikipedia:Ambasadat" class="extiw" title="m:w:sq:Wikipedia:Ambasadat">here</a>.</i>
</p>
</div>
</div>

This doesn't render correctly. The message we see at w:sq:MediaWiki:Abusefilter-disallowed-short-page actually gets enveloped in a red background when rendered.

Each system message that has mw-message-box-error or mw-message-box-warning as part of its HTML doesn't render as you'd expect.

Why is that and how can we make it so they behave the same? I hope I've been more understandable now. - Klein Muçi (diskutimet) 14 korrik 2022 06:04 (CEST)

@Klein Muçi I'm not seeing message-box on the page MediaWiki:Abusefilter-disallowed-short-page are you? Are you seeing it there, or are seeing it on another page, such as when triggering the abuse filter that is calling that message? Xaosflux (diskutimet) 14 korrik 2022 11:31 (CEST)

I'm seeing it when the abuse filter is triggered. To replicate it, try going into w:sq:WP:Livadhi (careful, that's a Wikipedia link) in incognito so you edit as an IP, try putting a single character in that page and saving it, you'll trigger the edit filter. You'll see that its message gets enveloped in a red background instead of showing up as it is in w:sq:MediaWiki:Abusefilter-disallowed-short-page (again, careful, that's a Wikipedia link). - Klein Muçi (diskutimet) 14 korrik 2022 15:29 (CEST)

OK, I didn't do that exact test (I don't want to record my IP in those logs) - but in general certain messages have some default classes (like ones generated from the abuse filter), and there is some basic styling provided by the default skins, the built-in ones were mostly renamed in 2021 (phab:T270796). On enwiki, here is what we do for special abuse filter messages, for example here is one: w:en:MediaWiki:Abusefilter-warning-external-images (there are many layers of transclusions if you want to dig down) -- we wrap the entire thing in a block element, and style that more specifically than the default. Xaosflux (diskutimet) 14 korrik 2022 16:25 (CEST)

Going to re-caution you on one thing: enwiki has a very large number of volunteers with advanced tech skills, and even then we run in to backlogs dealing with display intricacies that can be supportable across all of the workflows that they could be encountered in, when special localizations are built they often break when skins or software upgrades come out - requiring someone to fix or abandon them. If your project doesn't have volunteers in depth, be careful putting in any sort of script-based solutions. Xaosflux (diskutimet) 14 korrik 2022 16:29 (CEST)

When you say we wrap the entire thing in a block element, and style that more specifically than the default what are you exactly referring to in that example you brought? - Klein Muçi (diskutimet) 14 korrik 2022 17:16 (CEST)

.mw-message-box-error {
	background-color: none;
	border-color: none;
}
.mw-message-box-warning {
	background-color: none;
	border-color: none;
}

- Should adding the lines above in the Common.CSS be able to do what I'm hoping to achieve in a crude way? - Klein Muçi (diskutimet) 14 korrik 2022 17:52 (CEST)

Turns out I needed

background-color: transparent;

in the code above and finally after 2 years I crudely achieved what I wanted to do. I will deal with details soon.

What a wild 2 year ride this has been! :P Thank you for the patience! - Klein Muçi (diskutimet) 14 korrik 2022 18:12 (CEST)

Keep in mind, this may unstyle all uses of this box, across the entire site, for all skins - so now in other places instead of having a box there may just be plain text. Xaosflux (diskutimet) 14 korrik 2022 18:23 (CEST)

Yes, that's what I meant with "details". Just out of personal curiosity, how would I target a specific skin? And, is there a way to quickly see where a specific class is used for tracking purposes such as this case? - Klein Muçi (diskutimet) 14 korrik 2022 18:29 (CEST)

Oh, never mind! I forgot skins are target in their own common pages. Tell me only what can help me on the tracking if you have any advice. :) - Klein Muçi (diskutimet) 14 korrik 2022 18:53 (CEST)

Finding everywhere a class could be in the default skins is not an easy task :( Xaosflux (diskutimet) 14 korrik 2022 19:30 (CEST)

I see... Well, last question: Do you know how can I make the text that appears on top of a page when viewing an old version, the one that shows the date, the summary, etc., bigger if I so wished? It's the same text shared across all languages in Wikipedia and here. What would I need to put in the Common.css to affect that and only that? - Klein Muçi (diskutimet) 14 korrik 2022 19:38 (CEST)

@Klein Muçi that line has an id mw-revision-info that you could style, it should be unique to that line. Xaosflux (diskutimet) 14 korrik 2022 20:06 (CEST)

Yes, thank you! - Klein Muçi (diskutimet) 15 korrik 2022 00:44 (CEST)